In this post, I’d like
to share an interesting Facebook conversation with Mr. Sundara Velavan, faculty
at Institute of Language Management, Tamil Nadu. Sundara raised important questions
which led to discussions on programs like Teach for India, state’s role in
education, decentralization and standardization and so on. While responding to
Sundara, I presented my opinions on a gamut of educational issues. So, please
feel free to comment on whether you agree/ disagree/ or would like to add more
points to this discussion. The conversation began as I posted Economist’s
article on Teach for America on wall of a facebook group, Centre forContemporary Educational Reform.
Kathan Shukla
Are
there any studies examining the impact of this sort of projects in India? A lot
of NGOs are in the field, but is the bigger picture pleasant?
http://www.economist.com/blogs/economist-explains/2013/09/economist-explains-7
http://www.economist.com/blogs/economist-explains/2013/09/economist-explains-7
Sundara Velavan What are your
thoughts on this Kathan Shukla ?
Kathan Shukla haha... Sundara Velavan, putting me on the
spot :O OK. At micro-level I think it's nice to see youth going to gov.
schools, teaching, getting involved in development. Most are motivated and
really want to do something and children also benefit from them. Definitely,
the learning gets a push overall. However, at macro-level, the rationale for
this flows in this direction: gov education is a failure -> So, NGOs need to
get involved. The role should be that of a catalyst: carry out intervention,
build capacity of gov people, create sustainable setup and get out of the
system. However, they remain there forever and gradually expand.
Simultaneously, the government shrinks its responsibility. So, we end up
creating a scenario where government's capacity is reduced and the system is dependent
on these NGOs, who in the long-run behave as parallel governments (as seen in
many developing countries). And in case if they shut down for some reason, god
knows what happens to those children. In all this, the quality of education
remains un-addressed. Moreover, there remains grave concerns of
deprofessionalisation of teaching profession. I don't know any hospital that
would allow me to perform a surgery, or a court that would allow me to judge a
case after 15-20 days of training. What joke we have made out of teachers!
Kathan Shukla To resolve this
dilemma, we need methodologically robust empirical studies at every level
across various social contexts. We all may have diverse opinions/intuitions,
but the policy should not rely on that. There has to be solid bases - possibly
numerous studies which help us arrive at causal inferences of short term long
term effects of such NGOs.
September
20 at 4:56pm · Like · 2
Sundara Velavan Kathan Shukla Are you trying to imply that the state should be the sole provider and bear the sole/primary responsibility of educating our children and our youth?
Sundara Velavan Kathan Shukla Are you trying to imply that the state should be the sole provider and bear the sole/primary responsibility of educating our children and our youth?
Kathan Shukla In theory, yes,
at least for basic education. Biggest argument comes from the preamble of our
constitution. Ideally, basic education opportunity should not be dependent on
socio-economic status. Most high performing education systems across world are
public. With all their problems, even the Chinese have developed excellent
public education system in cities. Also, our goal should be to have minimum
variation across schools across entire nation. The privatization will always
increase this variance as the present economic inequality comes in the
equation. However, in practice, we all know the governments across India are
incapable of providing top quality education. My diagnosis is that the problem
is of governance & policy-making. All these years we have hardly studied
our educational issues systematically. So, the policymakers are always clueless
about what works. Hence, my earlier argument of empirical studies. It is also
true that the socialist lobby uses the above equality argument to put more
government controls on private schools. Cutting short the privatization is the
worst thing. It's like saying -'all should be in non-functional schools and not
just the poor'. In current scenario, if I were in policy-making, I would rather
avoid the public/private debate and just focus on better quality education. Be
pragmatic, study what works and just do it. Note that many
privatization-proponents favour 'school voucher' programmes, where poor children
can study in private school and the government pays the fee. However, that has
not really worked in many studies in US. As always, we don't have sufficient
knowledge for India. Centre for Civil society does some advocacy research, but
as far as I know they have mixed results.
Sundara Velavan Thank you for
your patient response!
Subir Shukla Brilliant analysis
there Kathan
Shukla!
Agree with every word of what you say.
Kathan Shukla thanks for a
kind note, Subir. Sundara, credit to you for inquiring
Sundara Velavan If you would allow,
I'd like to pick on what you've said, 'Also, our goal should be to have minimum
variation in schools across the nation'. Could you share which parameters you
are stressing that mustn't vary?
Kathan Shukla In the first
phase, all inputs that the children get in schools. And goal should be to
achieve invariant mean student achievement across schools. In other words,
average academic achievement of one school should not be significantly
different from other schools. Gradually, we can expand this invariance to
desired non-academic outcomes. Considering this for India is too abstract. But,
we can at least begin from a cluster level, where all schools within that
cluster become high achieving.
Hema Khatri I agree with
what Kathan
Shukla says.
In fact, I feel before trying to intervene directly by teaching the children
and management of school, the focus should be on Teacher Trainings by
empowering the government school/ municipal school teachers and equipping them
with same set of skills that these young 'corporate sanyaasis' use for teaching
the kids and running schools efficiently. There is need for changing their
overall approach towards teaching as a profession and trust and capacity
building at the level of school teachers and school management.
Sundara Velavan Kathan, Hardly would anyone
dispute that high student achievement is necessary/desirable. But the does kind
of uniformity that you talk about take into account the diversity of India and
the uniqueness of everyone of her children? Is it consistent with the concept
of 'local knowledge' articulated in the National Curriculum Framework (NCF
2005) and with the views of prominent educationists like Sir Ken Robinson?
Kathan Shukla Oh... I'm
referring to uniformity across schools (average achievement), not students.
Within schools there will always be variation across student achievement.
Individual differences can be accommodated within school-level.
Sundara Velavan As I understand,
your statement implies that while students within a school may be different,
the schools themselves are similar to one another in terms of curriculum, value
systems, infrastructure, parental aspirations and culture. Only in such a case
can we propose common parameters of student achievement.
Kathan Shukla Yes, to some
extent. Non-school variables (parental aspirations, socio-economic status,
other cultural aspects) are beyond the control of policymakers. So, got to
invest more (in teacher quality, leadership, infrastructure etc) in schools
where those variables affect the achievement negatively. But, the goal should
be to have minimum variation across schools. Also, curriculum can certainly be
flexible and localized. Researchers often define student achievement as math,
sci & reading scores on standardized test (which can be scaled and linked
keeping in mind language/curricula variation). Doing this at India level can be
the goal for next 50-70yrs. Even small homogeneous country like Finland took 2
decades. The Chinese did it in many cities in about 1 decade. We can at least
begin it at cluster-level (approx. 30-50 schools).
Sundara Velavan I really
appreciate your patience Kathan . Here are my last set of
questions: 1. 'Is policy the only instrument in educational reform on which we
must place all our bets?2. Math, Science and reading are important, but
depending on your socioeconomic context, so are fishing, weaving, dancing,
reciting mantras, honey collection and many other skills. Do you think that policy
needs to make space for such alternatives as well?If yes, how? If no, why
not?3. Do you think that a top- down, centrally controlled approach is the best
way forward in solving our educational woes? 4. Will structuring education,
which is the process by which learning is facilitated, on the principles of
uniformity and minimal variation, which usually are associated with inanimate
objects, help retain the human element in education? 5. What kind of an impact
will the push for standardization have on holistic learning and development? I
know the questions are many but I'm sure you understand the common
undercurrent.
Kathan Shukla I highly
appreciate these questions and would love to hear other people's perspective.
This is such an interesting conversation. I'll respond pretty soon
Kathan Shukla OK. 1) Policy
only gives a direction in which we should move as a country. For educational
reforms, we will always need a multidimensional approach. Clear linkage of
national objectives-> creation of relevant knowledge-pool -> policy ->
practices -> continuous policy evaluation, which adds to the knowledge-pool.
Things will improve if all stakeholders are on-board (from students to
politicians and all in-between). 2) Math/sci/reading can be the primary
outcomes of interest to assess school quality (only for research purpose). The
policymakers/researchers need that knowledge to design interventions and to evaluate
those interventions. All other aspects of the school have to be localized and
sensitive to local culture. (3) Certainly not. I hate the top-down approach. In
fact, I'd say that primary reason for poor educational outcomes across the
country is DELHI (not the city but centralized decision-making). Centre's job
is to coordinate state-policies and provide funds for knowledge production and
various social-programmes. At present, the states need to start establishing
the linkage as mentioned in first point. Gradually, we can bring that research
& decision-making capacity to districts, then talukas, and even
cluster-level (let's say over next 7, 15 & 25 years, respectively). Let
people figure-out their local problems. (4) I'm not sure if I understand this question.
It would be great if you can make it clearer what you mean by 'structuring
education'. (5) I'm talking about standardized tests for research purpose to
make informed policy decisions. That helps keeping the measurement error down
(unbiased inferences). A lot of people in western-world argue against it
because here the results are used to assess teachers and for punishing schools
with lesser funding. I don't favour that use of test-results. Our tests (e.g.,
board exams) have extremely low reliability. The score will be different if
different people assess the answer-sheet. I think that's unfair, right? Hence,
standardized tests.
Sundara Velavan I don't know
what to say except for thanking you for your patience! And yes, your point on
gradual decentralization answers the fourth question to an extent. Thanks again
Kathan. It indeed was a delightful conversation!
Kathan Shukla Sundara, how can I add you to
my friend list?
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